2025 Honda Odyssey Complaint Log

Issue with the idle auto star stop. I was driving on the freeway traffic stoped and I press fully down on the brakes and the turned of in stop and go traffic. Took about 5 minutes press and depress the brake pedal for the system to active again.

Many, many times vehicle stop/start feature has failed to start car. Have been stranded at busy intersection having to put car in park and restart car. Extremely dangerous. Took car to dealer and they deny there are any problems.

Starter failed to resume engine operation when auto start/stop disengaged motor at a stop light. This resulted in the vehicle being briefly inoperable after the light turned green, requiring other motorists to go around and leaving the vehicle stalled until engine functionality was resumed. Issue was reproduced by dealership, starter motor was deemed defective and was replaced under warranty. Vehicle had rough starts when resuming from auto stop for at least a week leading up to this incident.

Idle start stop system was engaged at stop light. When I released the brake the van engine should have restarted - however the van completely died at this point. I had to wait about 10 seconds and then restart the entire car while sitting at the stop light. Very dangerous - the vehicle has also done this when at a stop light but cut off after I started to make a turn - leaving me in a dead vehicle in traffic's way -

Description: Subject: Formal Warranty Claim – Spontaneous Glass Breakage and Request for Immediate Assistance Serious and unexpected failure involving my vehicle, a 2025 Honda Odyssey Elite (VIN: [XXX] ), currently with approximately 26,000 miles. On April 19, 2026, I submitted an initial complaint to Honda concerning what appears to be a spontaneous breakage of the rear side (fixed quarter) glass. The vehicle was parked overnight in driveway when the glass shattered without any known impact, external force, or evidence of vandalism. The fracture pattern is consistent with spontaneous tempered glass failure originating from the edge, which raises concerns of a potential manufacturing defect or internal stress within the material. On April 20, 2026, I presented the vehicle in person at my local Honda dealership for inspection and assistance. To date, no action has been taken, nor has any resolution been provided. This lack of response is unacceptable given the safety implications. Due to safety concerns, the vehicle is currently not in use and remains parked. I am unwilling to operate the vehicle in its present condition out of concern for further damage or risk. As a result, I am experiencing a significant disruption to my daily activities and mobility. Accordingly, I respectfully request the following: 1. Immediate review and approval of this issue under Honda’s warranty as a case of spontaneous glass breakage. 2. Prompt authorization for repair or replacement of the damaged glass at no cost to me. I have photographic documentation available. Sincerely, [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] ?VIN: [XXX] INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)

This is the second time I have taken it to the dealership. When sitting at a stop and the automatic stop and start happens, it acts like it does not want to crank back up. Last time the dealership said it was the battery; they replaced the battery, but that has not fixed the issue. if I am at a stoplight and it does not start back, that is not a good feeling my wife now does not want to drive the van anymore because of the seriousness of this issue as well has having young children in the car. This is a van that was bought brand new and has been in the shop more than it has been driven.

When Idle start/stop function is engaged and then goes to restart, the engine hesitates or fails to restart all together.

The contact owns a 2025 Honda Odyssey. The contact stated that while driving at an undisclosed speed, the idle stop feature turned off. The contact stated that the parking brake unexpectedly engaged, and the vehicle shut off with the message “Idle Stop Not Available” displayed. The contact was able to restart the vehicle. Additionally, shifting the vehicle out of park became difficult, and the contact had to wait an extended period before the vehicle could be restarted. The contact stated the failure would not occur while the idle stop feature was engaged. The vehicle was taken to the dealer, but was not diagnosed or repaired. The dealer informed the contact that the failure could not be duplicated. The contact was advised to return the vehicle if the failure persisted. The vehicle was taken back to the dealer; however, the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired, and the dealer refused to disengage the idle stop feature. The manufacturer was made aware of the failure. The failure mileage was approximately 23,000.

Multiple times since purchasing the vehicle, the engine fails to restart after the automatic idle stop feature engages at red lights or stop signs. When I release the brake to resume driving, the vehicle attempts to restart but makes a struggling or grinding noise and then stalls completely, similar to a dead battery. The vehicle becomes unresponsive and does not restart immediately. I am forced to turn the car off and attempt to restart it multiple times, often waiting several minutes before the engine turns back on. This has occurred in traffic, creating a safety hazard due to vehicles behind me and my inability to move the car. The issue appears to be related to the automatic idle stop/start system and may involve the starter or battery failing to properly restart the engine.

This is the fifth time the auto engine shutoff failed to restart after I stopped my car at a stoplight or traffic. This results in potential rear ended accident as one time it stopped in the middle of traffic on the freeway, another time the car behind me at a right turn light that turned from red to green almost rear ended me. No, I brought the car to Honda dealership and they said no problems. But this auto engine shutoff that failed to restart has occurred fifth times. Vehicle has been inspected by dealer and unable to reproduce because they didn’t drive it and step on the brake and have it stopped in middle of traffic. There was an engine warning light that occurred twice but disappeared after 1-2 days before my scheduled dealership appointment. I mention this to dealer. The failure happens suddenly without warning once I step on brake without turning off the auto engine shutoff which I sometimes forget because it is every single time I turn the engine off the auto shutoff would reset. I called Honda America back in January 2026 when I had this problem. I changed my car battery already and so it is not a car battery issue.

When I am stopped at a stop light or in traffic my auto start fails and kills the electric in my vehicle when I push the pedal to go. This has happened several times and in one instance, almost caused me to be rear ended. It took several attempts to restart the car all while other cars are buzzing past me. It is currently at the Honda dealership for the 4th or 5th time for this same issue. My battery was replaced all ready thinking that was the solution, but it was not. I personally know of two other people having this exact issue with their vans.

The issue involves a malfunction of the auto start/stop system in my 2025 Honda Odyssey, where the engine fails to automatically restart after coming to a stop. The vehicle instead requires a manual push‑button start to regain engine function. The vehicle and all related components are available for inspection upon request. This failure created a significant safety risk, as the vehicle became unexpectedly inoperative in active traffic. Losing propulsion at intersections or stop‑and‑go conditions exposes occupants and surrounding drivers to the risk of a rear‑end collision or being stranded in a hazardous location. The problem has not yet been reproduced or confirmed by a dealer or independent service center, but it has occurred during normal operation. The vehicle has not been inspected by the manufacturer, police, insurance representatives, or other third parties regarding this specific failure. There were no warning lamps, messages, or prior symptoms before the failure occurred. The issue first appeared without any advance indication.

2025 Honda Odyssey has been stalling due to Auto Idle Stop (AIS) failure to restart at traffic lights or stop signs. Engine fails to restart automatically and car needs to be manually restarted with push-button off/on switch. No apparent fix issued by Honda.

Upon coming to a complete stop, the engine has failed to reengage causing the car to stall in traffic. The car has restarted after being turned off and restarting but with traffic moving all around us and cars behind honking because they think we are failing to go. If we happened to stop in an intersection it could be even more dangerous. This has happened 3 times so far I. The past couple of months. At first I thought we accidentally pressed a wrong button or did something that caused the engine to stall, but upon research and talking to others with Hondas this appears to be a known issue. I am taking the car to the dealership on 4/10/26 to get looked at. There was no warning light or error messages prior to to happening. We bought the car new and it has only 10,000 miles on it.

On 4/4/2026, my child sustained a serious finger injury involving the power sliding door. The child activated the power sliding door using the interior door button. While the door was closing, the child’s hand remained on the front (leading) edge of the sliding door where it meets the door frame (B-pillar). The child’s finger became caught between the closing door and the frame. The power sliding door continued to close completely and latched shut on the child’s finger. At no point did the door stop or auto-reverse, and there was no noticeable slowing, hesitation, or warning indicating obstruction detection. The door operation sounded normal during closing. The child’s finger remained trapped until an adult manually opened the sliding door to release it. The injury involved a finger amputation involving the distal portion of the finger with an open fracture and nail involvement, requiring emergency room treatment. Emergency department records document a diagnosis of fingertip amputation, with radiology findings noting a soft tissue amputation defect and concern for distal phalanx (tuft) fracture of the affected finger. Follow-up evaluation on 04/06/2026 confirmed the severity of the injury and resulted in an urgent same-day referral for orthopedic/hand surgical evaluation.

When stopped at a red light, the vehicle’s auto off system turned the engine off. When the light turned green and I removed my foot from the brake, the engine stalled and would not restart. I pushed the start button several times, put the vehicle in park, pushed the start button a few more times, and finally got it to restart. Luckily, this happened leaving my neighborhood and not in a more precarious situation. This has happened approximately 20 times now. I’ve had the vehicle inspected by the dealer. They could not replicate the issue, but acknowledged that Honda knows it is an issue. They aren’t willing to fix it until there is a recall on the vehicles. In the meantime, I have a one year old vehicle that sputters and struggles to restart more often than not. I have had the vehicle stall like this after the auto off system turned the engine off when trying to merge into traffic on the interstate. I had a near miss to an accident at that time because the vehicle stalled and would not restart.

My van seems to struggle when traveling longer than 80 miles. I stopped on a trip at a rest stop and it would not restart. I had to get jumped and I purchased a new battery. I took my van into Honda and both batteries tested fine. No code is being produced though the dealership was able to replicate the issue once. After longer trips while using the air conditioner also have an issue with the auto/stop start not reengaging after being at a stop light. The dealership told me nothing is wrong a battery terminal was loose after they kept it for a week which I do not believe.

This vehicle comes with idle stop. Many times especially at red light, the idle stop switches off the engine but then it does not restart automatically. We have to switch off the car and then restart it again. This takes some time. In the meantime, it is the panic with cars honking behind us.

Vehicle failed to restart after Auto Idle Stop engaged while stopped in traffic. The engine shut off as expected but did not restart when releasing the brake pedal. A warning message appeared briefly on the dashboard but could not be fully read due to traffic conditions. The vehicle remained unresponsive until I shifted into Park and manually restarted the engine. This has occurred intermittently. The vehicle was previously evaluated by a dealer for the same issue, and the battery was replaced at approximately 15,000 miles. The problem has continued to occur after battery replacement. This creates a safety concern due to inability to move the vehicle in active traffic.

At a stoplight vehicle turned off and gave a battery light and vehicle lost all power and placed vehicle in park. A warning message came up very quickly about something wrong with the auto start/stop system on display. Vehicle remained off until after opening door and pressing engine start stop button multiple times along with depressing and releasing brake pedal multiple times. This occurred the first time in late February 2026 then again on 3/21/26. Vehicle has 46,880 miles currently.

Auto off system malfunctioning at stoplights. Happened 4 times in 10 days. Remove brake to accelerate and van is no longer in drive. Dash says to depressed brake to engage drive. Do this and will not go into drive. Need to turn vehicle off and back on to be able to place van in drive. One time it would not engage in drive and was able to depress brake and get back in drive but dash kept flashing “brake.” Afraid I will get rear ended at a stoplight

Engine Shutoff/Idle Stop Failure: The vehicle fails to restart after the automatic idle stop engages in traffic, requiring a manual restart. Electrical System Malfunctions: car dying at stoplights, loss of power, and, in some cases had to restart in "limp mode" where the vehicle is restricted to 1st gear,not very safe on major highways. Reported this to Honda during service on 3-16-26, they didn’t find anything? Has happened 7 times since it was serviced.

After stop at traffic light with air conditioning on, the auto idle stop system engaged. When the brake was released, the engine stalled, able to be restarted after 5-10s. Problem exactly matches NHSTA investigation EA25004.

the car will shut off at stop lights and randomly not start back up when the light turns green, then it will take a few minutes to start back up using the push button, this ONLY occurs with the automatic start stop feature of the car my wife drives the car with our two young children and being stuck in intersections randomly is not safe for anyone ,. we have told the dealer about the issue and they have failed to duplicate the issue and said nothing is wrong,

When stopped, my 2025 Honda Odyssey often fails to restart after the auto-idle stop engages. The engine stops, and fails to restart, and lights flash on the screen. I have to then turn the car all the way off, and on again, a process that can take upwards of 15 seconds. The issue happens daily. It will happen on the highway. Additionally, the button to disable the auto-idle engine stop is unreliable and sometimes doesnt work

The contact owns a 2025 Honda Odyssey. The contact stated that while stopped at a traffic light, the vehicle unexpectedly shut off. An unknown flashing warning light was illuminated, and the vehicle was manually restarted. This failure occurred frequently. The dealer was not notified of the failure. The vehicle was not repaired. The manufacturer was not notified of the failure. The failure mileage was 30,000.

The contact owns a 2025 Honda Odyssey. While the contact’s wife was stopped at a red light, the Auto START/STOP feature engaged, and the engine failed to automatically turn off as designed. The brake pedal was released, and the vehicle completely shut off. The vehicle was restarted, and the vehicle operated normally. The cause of the failure was not yet determined. The manufacturer and local dealer were not yet contacted. The contact was informed of NHTSA Action Number: EA25004 (ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING). The contact stated that the vehicle had experienced the failure listed in the investigation. The failure mileage was approximately 23,000.

This vehicle is a 1 year old (2025) Honda Odyssey with roughly 11,000 miles. On two separate occasions now, the auto start-stop feature has caused the engine to die altogether. On both occasions, the vehicle stopped at a red light in a busy intersection, the auto start-stop feature turned off the engine (intentionally), but when the light turned green and my foot came off the brake and onto the gas pedal, the vehicle died entirely. A number of lights and an error message illuminated on the dash board. From my online searches, it seems as though this is a very common issue. 1. What component or system failed or malfunctioned, and is it available for inspection upon request? Auto start-stop / engine. No not available. 2. How was your safety or the safety of others put at risk? Having your vehicle die at a busy intersection or stop sign is a huge risk. It can cause others to try and swerve around you, or it can cause someone not paying attention to rear end you. 3. Has the problem been reproduced or confirmed by a dealer or independent service center? The vehicle will be brought to the dealer in the coming days. Unfortunately this is my only vehicle and I cannot afford to lose it for an extended amount of time, therefore I have to prolong inspection and servicing. The issue has happened to me twice, and has happened to countless others online. According to others on the internet, the dealers are typically slow to address this issue, and even when "addressed" the issues seem to continue. 4. Has the vehicle or component been inspected by the manufacturer, police, insurance representatives or others? No, see #3. 5. Were there any warning lamps, messages or other symptoms of the problem prior to the failure, and when did they first appear? No warnings prior to the engine cutting out altogether. Only a message after the failures. In both cases I do not remember what the messages said because I was scrambling to restart my car in a busy intersection.

I’m experiencing issues with the Auto Idle Stop system. The engine fails to restart on its own after a complete stop. I get an error message and I have to manually restart. This has happed at stoplights and in the middle of an intersection during heavy traffic which is a big safety issue.

What happened? While driving my 2025 Honda Odyssey, the engine failed to restart during an Auto Idle Stop event at a 4-way stop/intersection. When releasing the brake to take my right-of-way, the engine stalled completely. The vehicle became immobilized, the power steering went heavy/stiff, and the brake pedal became difficult to depress. I had to manually cycle the ignition by shifting to "Park" and pressing the "Start" button multiple times to regain power while traffic was waiting. This has occurred twice. What component or system failed or malfunctioned? The Auto Idle Stop (AIS) system and the Starter/Charging System. A service technician recently documented a "slow crank" during routine maintenance, suggesting the battery is unable to handle the restart load. How was your safety or the safety of others put at risk? The vehicle stalled during a right-of-way transition (green light/4-way stop). This created an immediate risk. The loss of power steering and the stiffened brake pedal could have made the vehicle nearly impossible to maneuver manually on an incline during the failure. Has the problem been reproduced or confirmed? A dealership technician confirmed a "slow crank" symptom during a multi-point inspection, though they could not reproduce an issue. The battery tested good. Were there any warning lamps or symptoms before failure? Yes. A "slow crank" was noted by a technician when attempting to start my vehicle to check my vehicle mileage. During the stall itself, a red exclamation point warning appeared on the dashboard.

i bought this van brand new for over $53000 and it has been hesitating to start for months. i had the battery tested and came back good. The van hesitates to start and sometimes i have to redo the push button because it fails to start the first time. Yesterday, 02/23/2026 the van left myself and the kids stranded at walmart. it would not start for anything yet the lights and radio work and acted like it was not the battery. i had to call my husband to come get us. we went back hours later to jump it and it started. something is faulty with the started or electrical system to start it. i have another appointment to test the battery and i know its going to test good because i just had this done a month ago and it still hesitates to start. i am not impressed at all and readying online that i am not the only one having this problem. it needs looked into.

After a drive, shut it off, walk back to car within 2 minutes, car wont start. It cranked but failed. Never happen in cold start, but always after a drive. Happen about 8times in 9,000 miles and is more and more frequent now.

My 2025 Honda Odyssey has had trouble turning on since it has been about 9 months old. It doesn't always turn on from being off. It doesn't always turn on when the vehicle is already on and the auto-start-stop system turns the engine off. More often than not it struggles to start but eventually does. I took it in for service and the dealership replaced the battery. It continued to not start. The new battery did not improve the symptoms. I scheduled another appointment for service and the dealership kept lying and gaslighting me into believing that they did something to improve the symptoms. They claimed to have updated the computer system software/firmware versions. I asked which ones were updated and they said that none were, it was all up to date. They claimed to have "reset" the auto-start-stop system. I asked how that would improve performance when the vehicle doesn't start from being off as well. The vehicle is unsafe to drive. It turns off at stop lights, stop signs, in medians when I am trying to make turns. The engine not restarting in parking lots from a complete stop is also very concerning. I hate and fear my Honda and I am scared to drive it. I have taken it to multiple dealerships to get it fixed and none will do anything. I have a video recorded after this occurred at a red light. The video shows the status of the vehicle and attempts to restart it. This was recorded February 19th 2026.

Auto Idle Stop has malfunctioned several times causing me to get stuck at an intersection with warning lights flashing causing me to manually shift to “park” or shut down entirely to get it to restart. I was in the vehicle with my three kids and the light turned green and I could not move in heavy traffic. We took the vehicle into the Honda for service and they replaced my battery and did a full system check and battery reload test. Since replacing the battery, it has happened three times in 2 months. The remote start will not start when I try to get vehicle to start when outside the vehicle.

The contact owns a 2025 Honda Odyssey. The contact stated that while driving at an undisclosed speed, the accelerator pedal was depressed; however, the vehicle failed to accelerate as intended. The failure had occurred while driving from a stoplight, while the auto idle system was enabled. There was no warning light illuminated. The vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired by an independent mechanic or dealer. The dealer was made aware of the failure. The contact was advised that a diagnostic test was needed to determine the cause of the failure. The failure had occurred three times; however, the failure had not reoccurred after turning off the vehicle. The dealer informed the contact that the failure might not be duplicated. The manufacturer was not made aware of the failure. The failure mileage was approximately 12,549.

Over a period of the last several months when the auto idle stop engages at intersections (red lights, stop signs, etc) the vehicle will intermittently fail to restart. The vehicle stalls entirely and goes into a state where you are unable to restart the vehicle for anywhere from 30 seconds to several minutes. This is a very dangerous situation and each time have had other motorists honking and frustrated that the vehicle is not going when the light turns green. The vehicle is currently at the Honda dealership for the third time to attempt to repair this issue. The first time it was returned to me and I was told no issues found, the second time (after multiple more failures on road) was told the battery was faulty. The battery was replaced but the failures to restart continue. I can see that there are many claims of this same issue with Honda, however in our experience with this vehicle, very little has been done by Honda to solve this major safety issue.

The contact owns a 2025 Honda Odyssey. The contact stated that while driving approximately 40 MPH, the vehicle experienced a loss of automotive power. The failure was intermittent. No warning light was illuminated. The local dealer was not contacted. The vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. The manufacturer was not made aware of the failure. The failure mileage was approximately 12,000.

I see the NHTSA is aware of the issue with Honda Odyssey AutoStart failing to restart the engine which causes the car to need to be restarted fully while stopped in the middle of traffic. I had this issue many times, my car was serviced with a new battery and 2 months laters its starting again. As an aside one of the front parking sensors will randomly go off which can often cause me to turn off the array. Cleaning didnt help.

Complaint Description: While driving my 2025 Honda Odyssey, the Auto Idle‑Stop system engaged in the middle of an intersection at a traffic light, shutting the engine off as designed. When I released the brake pedal, the engine failed to restart, leaving the vehicle stalled in traffic. The dashboard displayed warning indicators including the battery light, and the only way to move the vehicle was to turn off the car completely several time and try to manually restart the engine. This issue has occurred multiple times and poses a serious safety risk, especially when it happens in intersections or heavy traffic. I almost got hit by an oncoming car! On each occasion, surrounding traffic was forced to maneuver around my vehicle, creating the potential for a rear‑end or a side collision. this has been happening for a long time now and these instances are occurring almost weekly at this point. They are increasing. I have seen that other 2025 Odyssey owners are reporting the same issue — engine shuts off after Auto Idle‑Stop activates and will not restart — sometimes requiring a full restart and causing dangerous traffic situations on carfax.com. Based on similar NHTSA‑documented complaints and investigations into Honda Auto Idle‑Stop restart failures, this appears consistent with a known defect pattern involving stalled engines and failure to restart after idle‑stop engagement. (lawinfo.com and edmunds.com) The dealership has already replaced my low pressure fuel pump and state that they are fulkly aware of the issue and have not provided a permanent fix, and the problem continues to occur unpredictably. My wife and 4 children are in this car all the time. This defect could easily lead to an accident if the vehicle becomes immobilized in moving traffic. I am reporting this to ensure it is documented as a potential safety defect requiring investigation and mitigation.

Vehicle lost full power all dashboards went blank. When tried to turn off the vehicle switch didn’t turn it off after multiple attempts at complete stop on the busy road vehicle managed to turn off restart system and turn it back on

Since purchasing this vehicle brand new off the truck, we have had it back at the dealership multiple times ,we've taken it for the plug in console not working for firesticks, a sensor not working on the passenger side door and claiming it to be open, the sliding door not working correctly, the doors locking and refusing to unlock, battery draining, ac not working, stalling, dying at lights, slamming on its own brakes with nothing around, transmission acting weird, it putting itself in to sport mode, transmission sticking, doors not unlocking or not locking, sensors going off, random errors on dash, screens not working, Car play not working, suspension popping, steering being wiggly and loose, brakes squeeling. Today we were told by the dealership "he saw the damage that is resulting in needing to replace the steering column. With that being said, it is considered a safety hazard to drive this vehicle with the condition the steering column is in." This is after multiple times of saying nothing is wrong to we have to charge the battery to you need a new starter to this.

The CMBS braking system is completely faulty. It regularly brakes for shadows on the ground, going up hills, or for no reason at all. There have been SEVERAL near misses where cars behind me have almost rear ended me because of this cars erratic braking. I have a neck injury from this most recent episode of the car slamming the brakes for no reason.

Auto Start/Stop system engaged, when given gas the engine did not start. Battery light came on and had to turn off and on the vehicle to start the engine. EA25004 - Investigation [XXX] INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)

The vehicle completely stalled, we believe it’s related to the engine in reference to the idol on and off mechanism. We began to drive forward and the auto on off starter caused the car to completely shut down and freeze in an intersection.

I brought my van in for service because, when stopped at a traffic light, the vehicle enters automatic shutdown as designed; however, when I release the brake, the engine does not restart. Instead of restarting automatically, the vehicle remains off, and I have had to perform a hard start because it will not crank on its own. The van is a brand-new 2025 Honda that was purchased new. After inspection, I was informed that the battery would need to be replaced. During the same visit, I also reported a vibration issue. After checking this, I was told that the vehicle needs new shocks and that the tires show wear. I was further informed that the tires will not be covered. Given the age of the vehicle and the fact that it was purchased brand new, I am concerned about the need for a battery replacement, suspension repairs, and tire wear at this stage, as well as the decision not to cover the tires.

My 2025 Honda Odyssey features a standard Auto Idle Stop system designed to improve fuel efficiency by shutting off the engine when braking to a stop. While intended to restart upon releasing the brake, my 2025 models have reported issues with failing to restart or stalling.

My Odyssey has a no-restart issue related to Auto Idle Stop. Engineer did not restart at red light and I had to push the button twice. We were caught in traffic and was not safe.

Idle Stop Failure. This has occurred many times. Presents itself as: Failure to restart upon releasing the brake. Rough restart. Sometimes have to completely turn off car and restart.

On multiple occasions our vehicle has turned off at a stop (auto start/stop) and failed to restart upon pressing the accelerator. It then takes several seconds to be able to restart and get moving.

The car stopped while driving in the middle of the street and would not turn off or on.